XR8, a hypothetical

[flappist]

As it appears there might be a bit of interest in the return of the XR8 I thought I would make poll on a hypothetical XR8.

As most are aware the GS really is what would have been an XR8 with FPV farkles added so here is the plan.

Ford will make an XR8 for sale as per these specifications:

1) Factory order after signed and financed deal so no heavily discounted demos or slow moving floor stock.

2) Exactly the same base price for the GS or XR8

3) XR8 will be "XR spec" being 230km/h limited, no FPV logos, starter or instrumentation, XR colours and interior and 18" rims the same as XR6T. Effectively the XR8 will be an XR6T with V8 engine and all the option costs will apply.

4) No track day or other FPV goodies.

5) Available from any Ford dealer not just FPV dealers.

[comagutsa]

what about NO i already have one

[Franco Cozzo]

Assuming it will be the Miami 5L?

If so just rename GS to XR8, everyone wins.

To me, I don't think its worth it if its the same price as GS, except no forced induction.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Assuming it will be the Miami 5L?

If so just rename GS to XR8, everyone wins.

To me, I don't think its worth it if its the same price as GS, except no forced induction.

If it were a new N/A engine it would actually cost MORE than the supercharged one but at least it would uphold the tradition of being slower than the six cylinder.

You build "special" cars. Why do they cost more than the same sort of thing from the dealer without your "special" bits?

[EVLKNEVL]

It would be a direct competitor to the entry level SS, which is an SV6 with a V8, so it would have to be priced competitively. Equipment levels would need to be more generous to keep up with the impending VF and its more generous equipment levels. That presumably would make it a lower-profit model that could inadvertently eat into FPV sales.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by flappist

As it appears there might be a bit of interest in the return of the XR8 I thought I would make poll on a hypothetical XR8.

As most are aware the GS really is what would have been an XR8 with FPV farkles added so here is the plan.

Ford will make an XR8 for sale as per these specifications:

1) Factory order after signed and financed deal so no heavily discounted demos or slow moving floor stock.

2) Exactly the same base price for the GS or XR8

3) XR8 will be "XR spec" being 230km/h limited, no FPV logos, starter or instrumentation, XR colours and interior and 18" rims the same as XR6T. Effectively the XR8 will be an XR6T with V8 engine and all the option costs will apply.

4) No track day or other FPV goodies.

5) Available from any Ford dealer not just FPV dealers.

i picked the SS as a holden man.
how ever if i was a ford man it would be an XR8 with the SS price tag,
5.0 N/A,,, the windsor version sold, so should this!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by flappist

If it were a new N/A engine it would actually cost MORE than the supercharged one but at least it would uphold the tradition of being slower than the six cylinder.

You build "special" cars. Why do they cost more than the same sort of thing from the dealer without your "special" bits?

I guess that was because the 5L wheezer is a crap engine, might have been better to use the 4.6 for EL/AU but hindsight is always 20/20 and I don't exactly know the reasoning behind using the windsor.

Because we have to recoup development costs and make profit on every car we sell.

The difference is I sure as hell wouldn't buy the cars we make if I was in the position of the Victorian Government given the price, the many quality issues, obvious cost cutting and on principle.

I wouldn't even buy my competitors product, having pulled one apart, some of the furniture is held in the floor with 4 self tappers and sillicon sealing it to the false floor.

Given when the XR8 was still being sold new in the FG series and the same price, why would you bother over the faster XR6T? Faster and cheaper rego in some states.

[FPV8U]

I'd be looking to buy within about 18-24 months, if no XR8 is around then ill consider XR6T or GS instead, GT will likely be well out of my budget unless I go second hand.

[Stefan]

Your Item 2? Why would Ford sell a Ford XR8 and an FPV GS at the same price? But you get less with the XR8?

The XR8 would have to be the "in between car" in price and specification.

BUT

The big problem Ford have is they pulled the XR8 badge off a car, replaced it with a GS badge, added nothing else and increased the retail price by $12K.

Now if they re-introduce the XR8 back at the $45K retail they look like fools because it is the same car except for a badge, why buy a GS, why pay an extra $10K+. So you would need to down spec the GS into an XR8 which would be near impossible as it is at base model spec already.

Ford tried to reinvigorate the XR8 by adding GS badge and introducing some FPV exclusivity but only managed to loose further sales as buyers realized they are paying 10K for a sticker and a badge.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Ford tried to reinvigorate the XR8 by adding GS badge and introducing some FPV exclusivity but only managed to loose further sales as buyers realized they are paying 10K far a sticker and a badge.

Bingo!

[Jason[98.EL]]

would look at the xr8 for a get to work and have fun on weekends when I get my current car half paid out

the only issue I have is the fact that I need a 6 seater

now a V8 7 seater terry would be nice ( oops did i say that out loud )

oh and the poll doesn't allow for in the next 18 months

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Your Item 2? Why would Ford sell a Ford XR8 and an FPV GS at the same price? But you get less with the XR8?

The XR8 would have to be the "in between car" in price and specification.

BUT

The big problem Ford have is they pulled the XR8 badge off a car, replaced it with a GS badge, added nothing else and increased the retail price by $12K.

Now if they re-introduce the XR8 back at the $45K retail they look like fools because it is the same car except for a badge, why buy a GS, why pay an extra $10K+. So you would need to down spec the GS into an XR8 which would be near impossible as it is at base model spec already.

Ford tried to reinvigorate the XR8 by adding GS badge and introducing some FPV exclusivity but only managed to loose further sales as buyers realized they are paying 10K for a sticker and a badge.

Two questions:

1) Why was a FG GT 5.0 almost 10k dearer that the FG GT 5.4 when other than the engine they were basically identical?

2) The $45k XR8 was severely discounted from $52k and still did not sell. Why should a new one be discounted.

Now as to why I chose the parameters of the hypothetical.

If it is a "real" XR8 it would have be be the same as the XR6T and previous XR8 not just a badge change.

I put this hypothetical up to see if there was real interest in a real car that is actually technically and financially viable.
So far all I seem to be getting is the same "old model SS is cheap, Ford must match it" story.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Stefan

The big problem Ford have is they pulled the XR8 badge off a car, replaced it with a GS badge, added nothing else and increased the retail price by $12K.

Pretty sure the original FG XR8 didnt have a blown V8, standard 19s etc.

[Franco Cozzo]

If they can't sell a car at its RRP, means they're trying to sell it for too much and in the eyes of the consumer it isn't worth that much, thats Ford's problem.

Probably why Holden discounts 24/7.

Or maybe people just don't care for the Falcon anymore.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by flappist

Two questions:

1) Why was a FG GT 5.0 almost 10k dearer that the FG GT 5.4 when other than the engine they were basically identical?

2) The $45k XR8 was severely discounted from $52k and still did not sell. Why should a new one be discounted.

Now as to why I chose the parameters of the hypothetical.

If it is a "real" XR8 it would have be be the same as the XR6T and previous XR8 not just a badge change.

I put this hypothetical up to see if there was real interest in a real car that is actually technically and financially viable.
So far all I seem to be getting is the same "old model SS is cheap, Ford must match it" story.

you make it sound like ford (au) cant get a create,
why do they have to play with it?
just install it, dont touch it.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by burnz

you make it sound like ford (au) cant get a create,
why do they have to play with it?
just install it, dont touch it.

Assuming you mean crate, the engine as well as the whole vehicle would have to go through exactly the same certification and ADR compliance as the EB4 or Terri Diesel.

This will cost millions of dollars and take a long time.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by flappist

So far all I seem to be getting is the same "old model SS is cheap, Ford must match it" story.

Everything aside this is were it's at.

No point in me selling apples for 10 bucks a box when the dude next door sells them for 5.

My box has colourful writing on it but soon the buyers will realise no point paying 5 bucks more for colourful writing.

Put simply the GS is not value for money, too poorly specced when you could add $5K push the dealer hard and get a GT, now you get Brembos leather etc etc etc.

Get the GS whack on the smaller wheels, basic XR trim, loose the FPV junk, call it XR8SC, choice of colours only (white, red or blue) only one trim colour available, price it at $49,990 and watch them walk out the door. Yeah more expensive than SS but hell of a lot cheaper than GT and you still get the supercharged V8.

[DJM83]

As much as i love the V8, i reckon id still go the 6T if i were to purchase another falcon.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Pretty sure the original FG XR8 didnt have a blown V8, standard 19s etc.

WTF? The XR8 has always had a downspecced GT engine? Why would it now something else? How many different engines do you want?

[AndyXR6T]

I was looking to buy a FG XR8 at the start of last year. Obviously couldn't buy them brand new, and finding a low km used one was near impossible. (No one was selling theirs)

In the end I went for the XR6Tamd happy with my choice. Although if they produced a N/A XR8 I probably would consider one in the near future

[burnz]

Originally Posted by flappist

Assuming you mean crate, the engine as well as the whole vehicle would have to go through exactly the same certification and ADR compliance as the EB4 or Terri Diesel.

This will cost millions of dollars and take a long time.

yes i mean crate, yes it will need re cert.

but why pull an engine down when it was hand assembled is usa?
why put a blower on it when one with was allready availabe?

this just add's expese, when all the leg work was done.

as i said 5.0 N/A ,,windsor sold, so would this!
leave the blown jobbies to FPV, diffarent market.

[EVLKNEVL]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Get the GS whack on the smaller wheels, basic XR trim, loose the FPV junk, call it XR8SC, choice of colours only (white, red or blue) only one trim colour available, price it at $49,990 and watch them walk out the door. Yeah more expensive than SS but hell of a lot cheaper than GT and you still get the supercharged V8.

Walk out the door at 50 grand? Three colour choices?

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Stefan

WTF? The XR8 has always had a downspecced GT engine? Why would it now something else? How many different engines do you want?

They were NA and had differences. You cant have a 45k XR8 with a blown V8 thats only a tune away from the top of the tree GT. Its almost going back to the AU scenario where at one point they had the 220 engine in everything and killed Tseries sales until the stroker came. The Miami is a premium engine so demands a premium price. You dont see Holden putting the old 317kw unit in their entry level SS

The only way they can do it is to bring the NA 5.0 and sell it with that and we all saw how well the XR8 sold last time hence why there is no XR8 now.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

45k XR8 with a blown V8 thats only a tune away from the top of the tree GT

I don't get your logic, that's the way it has always been?

351 Cleveland in GS, 351 cleveland in GT

5.0 windsor in XR8, 5.0 windsor in GT

5.4 boss in Xr8, 5.4 boss in GT

When has there ever been a massive difference between a GT and the lesser V8? Never.

The GT usually offered an exclusive look, wheel and handling package, modest power increase (30kW?), brake upgrade, trim, body kit. Why are we suddenly so precious about the engine?

You're creating some difference between the GT and the XR8 that has never existed before.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Stefan

WTF? The XR8 has always had a downspecced GT engine? Why would it now something else? How many different engines do you want?

Which is exactly what my hypothetical is about.

Ford cannot sell a $55k car for $45k viably so the XR8 will be about the price of a GS.

The FPV bits such as cluster, seats, wheels etc all cost about the same as the XR bits so there is no saving there.

The stickers and starter button would be offset by the XR8 badges plus or minus a few dollars.

The primary premise is that the GS badge rather than XR8 badge is a significant component as to why whomever has not bought a V8 Falcon.
So far the evidence does not seem to support this.

And in case it has not been noticed, the poll shows who voted so if you are driving a 10 year old second hand car that you are still paying off or are a 17 year old P plater in a V8 restricted state saying you will buy a new $55k XR8 right now may be met with a bit of suspicion.

[jpd80]

The sale of V8s is that low now, it really doesn't matter any more.
Those who want a GT-GS-XR8 and want it new will pay what its worth.
The rest will go buy second hand if they can.....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Everything aside this is were it's at.

No point in me selling apples for 10 bucks a box when the dude next door sells them for 5.

My box has colourful writing on it but soon the buyers will realise no point paying 5 bucks more for colourful writing.

Put simply the GS is not value for money, too poorly specced when you could add $5K push the dealer hard and get a GT, now you get Brembos leather etc etc etc.

Get the GS whack on the smaller wheels, basic XR trim, loose the FPV junk, call it XR8SC, choice of colours only (white, red or blue) only one trim colour available, price it at $49,990 and watch them walk out the door. Yeah more expensive than SS but hell of a lot cheaper than GT and you still get the supercharged V8.

While in theory this sounds good carsales has several brand new GS sedans for $51,985 drive away ($49,985 ex govt charges) and some demos in the $40ks.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ford cannot sell a $55k car for $45k viably so the XR8 will be about the price of a GS.

Ford cannot sell a car which the market sees as being worth $45k for $55k.

I don't care how much it cost to develop, you charge what the market can bear not more.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by R-Design

Ford cannot sell a car which the market sees as being worth $45k for $55k.

I don't care how much it cost to develop, you charge what the market can bear not more.

OR

You don't make one.

Selling a car for a loss is not particularly good business.

Designing one specifically to sell at a loss is just stupid......

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by flappist

While in theory this sounds good carsales has several brand new GS sedans for $51,985 drive away ($49,985 ex govt charges) and some demos in the $40ks.

Can get a new manual SS for $38k.