Has Ford Simply got it Wrong?

[Crazy Dazz]

It seems that Nomatter what Ford does, they cannot arrest the sliding sales of the Falcon, and whilst the Terri has rebounded, it’s not really enough to justify a stand-alone model.

All of this has got me to thinking; has Ford simply gone completely the wrong direction with their large cars?
It seems to me that increasingly these cars are aimed at boring old farts. Their most significant developments of late have been the Diesel Territory Slug, the EcoLpi, and the EB. The XR6 is barely more than a trim level (essentially replacing the Futura and SR) The XR6T lives in constant fear of the axe, V8 is gone, and the XR8 no more. The Territory has lost all its turbo modes, including the F6X, and you can’t even get an I6 in AWD! FPV have trimmed back its models, etc, etc. Yes, the world has changed, the market has changed, and I'm not saying that any of the forgoing would necessarily have “saved” the Falcon, but it does make me wonder if they haven’t made a dreadful mistake?

There is obviously a large (increasing?) demographic out there who care nothing about style, performance, or handling. As long as their family slug has 57 airbags and 18 different button on the steering wheel, they’re happy. There are also those who having driven “reliable” (and boring as bat ****) Corollas all their boring lives now want something a little more comfortable for the replacement hips. Problem is NONE of these people are going to buy a Falcon Nomatter how boring you make it.
People wanting a safe reliable family slug for their missus and kids will buy her a Camry or some Hyundai. Those who want to be a little bit “stylish” will get a Mazda 6. I(If I was going that path, as a Ford diehard, I’d be tempted to get her an ecolpi, but would probably plump for the Mondeo TD.) Boring old farts (still reeling from the demise of the Avalon) will STILL buy ******* Camrys, secure in the knowledge that they COULD buy an Aurion if they wanted to be a hoodlum.

If you want a “bang for your buck” RWD saloon, or SUV, the Falcon and Terri are impossible to beat in their home market. And I still reckon there is a significant niche market out there for exports of those models.
Nobody overseas is going to want to buy an EB Falcon, nor be fooled that a Territory Titanium is a prestige vehicle. But stick the 300kw+ I6T in an AWD, and you have something that PERFORMANCE wise would be punching way above its price-range.

I'm not suggesting that FA make EVERY Falcon a performance model, only that focussing on, and highlighting those aspects of the range, along with less boring styling, might reposition the Falcon brand in the market place.

It’s basic marketing 101. To carve out a market share you either need to offer an (attractive) point of difference, or you need to be able to improve upon what the market is currently consuming. The Falcon will never compete with Camrys & Hyundais etc when it comes to price, economy, and “reliability.” Hence the need to have points(s) of difference.

[UberKnee]

I seriously doubt the XR6T is about to be axed at any point soon. Only time the XR6T dies is when Falcon itself dies. Its a hero car at this point.

Large cars just don't sell anymore, simple as that and its not like the good old days where the government did all they could to keep non Aussie built cars out of the country. With the numerous different car makers in Aus thesedays, Ford is only entitled to a small piece of the pie.

[Dave R]

It's hard for Ford to make ground with Falcon when less people are shopping for large sedans. That's why I don't think further differentiating the product from its competition is going to do much for sales momentum at this stage in the game. A few people will hold hope for the 2014 update to re-energise sales, just like FG was supposed to do, just like EcoLPI was supposed to do and just like EcoBoost was supposed to do. No matter how good Ford make the product, they're going to suffer with a shrinking market.

[PG2]

It is hard to pass judgment on whether Ford Oz has made the correct decision in regards to the Falcon and Territory without knowing all of the information that Ford themselves have on hand.

In regards to the XR6 now being barley more than a trim level replacing the Futura and SR is probably correct. However Holden have also done this with their SV6. The XR6T is not going anywhere and the XR8 is now the FPV GS (rightly or wrongly).

The Territory Turbo models were cut from the model line-up for one simple reason – they did not sell. There may be a number of reasons for this but that is the bottom line. There were two models in the Turbo range and the base model was just simply not appealing. The Ghia gained a little interest but certainly did not sell in the numbers that Ford needed it to. Apart from some premium brands, there are no other manufacturers offering a turbo petrol SUV.

I 100% agree, Ford needs to give the Falcon and Territory a point of difference with their vehicles. Yes, they probably need more features in the upper spec models to give better value. But what features do they put in there. Other threads have covered this and everyone has had a different opinion on what features they need. Remember one thing – some people buy the Falcon or Territory because of what it doesn’t have – they simply do not want to pay extra for something that they do not want.

However the one thing that they need to do is start marketing the point of differences that they already have. They need to start pointing out some of the features and benefits of owning a large car. I covered some of this in another thread comparing it to another type of popular car - I won't repeat it here. Maybe a campaign "The 10 Myths of Owning a Ford Falcon" I'm no advertising exec so maybe this is a stupid idea.

Heck, while I am typing this I cannot even remember what the current Ford slogan is – I remember, “Have you drive a Ford lately.” It had a catchy tune. Even though the ad does show a Mondeo at the end of it the Ecoboost ad is very good. Somebody in another thread said that their child was doing the whistle. Funny you should say that but I heard a mate’s child do the same thing yesterday while twirling his finger around his ear. My mate said, “Bloody Ford.”

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by PG2

It is hard to pass judgment on whether Ford Oz has made the correct decision in regards to the Falcon and Territory without knowing all of the information that Ford themselves have on hand.

In regards to the XR6 now being barley more than a trim level replacing the Futura and SR is probably correct. However Holden have also done this with their SV6. The XR6T is not going anywhere and the XR8 is now the FPV GS (rightly or wrongly).

The Territory Turbo models were cut from the model line-up for one simple reason – they did not sell. There may be a number of reasons for this but that is the bottom line. There were two models in the Turbo range and the base model was just simply not appealing. The Ghia gained a little interest but certainly did not sell in the numbers that Ford needed it to. Apart from some premium brands, there are no other manufacturers offering a turbo petrol SUV.

So, that would be a point of difference?
I don’t know how many Turbos Ford sold, but I’d like to compare that number to the number of EB’s they’re selling!?!
I’d also like to know what attempts were made to market it O/S

And yes, as I said, I understand that the market has changed and “people aren’t buying large cars” anymore, and that’s kinda my point.
They’re not going to convince Camry buyers to buy an EB Falcon instead with their “hey look we’ve made the Falcon almost as boring as you” approach.
Although their “Territory Diesel – we’ve taken the S out of SUV” does seem to be striking a disturbingly successful chord.

Whether people realise it or not, their desire to purchase a certain car (or cars) is arrived at by a process of compromising desire against attainability. Whether it acts as a function of marketing or simply absorption, people cannot decide on something that isn’t available. You can’t convince people that they want (or “need”) to buy the “cherry on top” if there is no cherry.
As for buying a Ford because it doesn’t have stuff, sorry NOBODY pays more money for something they perceive as less.

It’s interesting that people jump to the defence of the XR6T, proclaiming it’s immortality, apparently as a rebuttal of my argument, and in doing so proving my point. Does anybody care that the pov pack is called an “XT,” or that we nolonger have a “Futura”? The XR6T sells BECAUSE it is a performance model, has fewer natural competitors in its niche market, and “bang for buck” is unbeatable. I say it is under threat only because every step FA has taken with Falcon recently has been in the opposite direction.

In addition to trying to carve out more sales in a shrinking domestic market, (as has been talked about ad nauseam in other threads,) a possible salvation of our home grown products is export. Even without the unfavourable exchange rate and cost comparisons, boring as batshite Diesel Terri’s and EB Falcons are NOT going to sell, period. I’m not saying that performance models are necessarily a shoe-in either, but at least with their “bang for buck” appeal they might have a chance.

People keep crapping on about what a great product the Falcon is and how Ford should exploit that and not kill it, etc, etc, blah, blah. And I don’t necessarily disagree, but WHAT exactly should we be trying to sell?
Imagine you’re a ****, or a pom, walking into your local Ford showroom. You’re looking at the Mondeo/Fusion, with its choice of engines, and its roomy yet economical packaging, and the salesman says “hey look for a lot more money you can have the same engine and similar space in this funny looking car from Australia!” Nobody would buy it, and nobody would want to try and sell it. Whether the performance models could get off the ground is admittedly a big question but at least it would give them a product they don’t already have and a potential niche market

And I reiterate that a relatively SMALL NICHE market in the USA and Europe would be a MASSIVE boost to local numbers.

[DanielXR8]

Exporting Falcon at the launch of FG might have helped production numbers, but now this platform is well past the half way mark for its run and the final update is not far away. Its simply too late now to do anything more with it and we have what we have.

As for sports models etc. I am surprised Ford haven't done more with the assets of Prodrive which they got for a song. They really haven't done anything with them at all and you would think they really are only going to be of value, while there is a local Falcon to fit those engines and body kits to.

Putting the XR8 badge back on the GS and getting it out the door at XR6 Turbo prices seemed a logical move to me. Yes the GT would have to be re-positioned in price too, but given its not exactly setting sales charts on fire at the moment, adjusting its price might not of hurt sales volumes either.

Its looking like Ford just wanted to secure the FPV branding for future generations of cars and minimise the "Falcon is dead" stories in the media, that the formal end of contemporary GT production would have bought. To be fair the press going on about it could have been devastating to Falcons sales - possibly enough to nix the development in 2014 Falcon and call it a day. They really had no choice about buying FPV, if they stood any chance of recouping the money already spent on the 2014 model and the other fallout that would occur.

That all said its clear with the local model mix and the trimming of models and decontenting that is still going on, that this is now an accountants game. How to maximise return on a diminishing customer base, before you call it a day for Falcon and Territory.

[banarcus]

Crazy Dazz, maybe you should ask a few people in the real world about their thoughts on an Aussie made Ford rather than a Ford forum? We are spoilt for choice when it comes to motor vehicles in this country and given that most of the population would rather live in a crowded and congested state capital city, most go for smaller more efficient cars I guess.

[EB#]

Ford are in the business of making a profit, and thus they are unlikely to continue
to build cars that people do not want to buy. In our market, the large sedan is just
about dead, so what is the point of flogging this dead horse even further?

Export? Why would a poor selling Falcon here have a place in an OS market? It is an
unviable proposition at best. Terry is maybe a chance to sell a few, but also an
unviable development cost I would say.

In addition, the OPs comments regarding boring cars and boring old people are entirely
subjective and offer no valid point toward the merit of an alternative Ford product.
Why do Corollas and Mazda 3's sell so well? Because they are well engineered,
reliable, economic and frankly not that "small" any more. It's simple.

It seems to me that Ford are closing the hatch to the money pit of the large sedan here
in Australia. Given the Terry's engineering ties to the Falcon, I guess this one is on the blocks too.
I love my Falcon, but their days are numbered. This is blindingly obvious
to me. When it's all over and if I'm still in the market for a Ford there will be something
there to choose from.

Until then, I reckon there are a few years yet to go with my Aussie Falcon which I will
thoroughly enjoy.

[Trevor 57]

The market has moved on, look around you, people and businesses (remember that most cars are sold into fleets, 80% or so) now want smaller turbo diesel cars or dual cab 4x4 utes

[Motorbreath310]

Just curious. Would anyone know if the large car sales slump has hit the premium segment? How are 5 series, E-class and A6 sales doing?

[Nikked]

Ford have offered a wide ranges of engines to cover different aspects of the market...

Unfortunately, the market is oversaturated with choice, so in the end a few will miss out...it not only the Falcon sliding...The market is up, yet, not one vehicle is selling at the numbers that the falcon/commodore were at 10-15 years ago.


What is more damaging is the constant hammering of the brand not just by the media...but by the almost weekly lashing it receives on some forums...

[mash again]

There is a huge amount of reasons people dont want falcons or this type of car anymore, road conditions, you cant park it with the nose over the curb ifs its an xr6 due to too low spoiler. Its hard to get into if you are 6ft. I have a BA dirt race car and an XR8 ute, my next ute will be a dual cab as after having two work vehicles in the last 3 years they are easier to live with, hopefully a ranger for me. Im now finding the XR8 ute hard to live with on a day to day basis, always trying not to rip off the bumper when i park. Anyone done an RTV conversion on an XR8. I want to keep it for a while as the BA XR8 ute only has 43k on it and i like the way it sounds, looks and accelerates. So as a company i think ford are making the right decisions, they have arguably the best dual cab ute on the market, the focus which is again up there and most of their vehicle perform well and are reliable as do the falocns (good cars) people just have more choice and are excercising that choice.

[AU Mont]

Originally Posted by Nikked

What is more damaging is the constant hammering of the brand not just by the media...but by the almost weekly lashing it receives on some forums...

you would like to think that, but in reality brand bashing on an internet forum, or crap blogs written by deadbeat journo's has got nothing to do with it.

my dad and many others switched from fords to euros during the B-series era for example after driving fords their whole life because they wanted a better quality/different type of vehicle. In the end people want what they want, nothing can really change that.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

It seems that Nomatter what Ford does, they cannot arrest the sliding sales of the Falcon, and whilst the Terri has rebounded, it’s not really enough to justify a stand-alone model.

All of this has got me to thinking; has Ford simply gone completely the wrong direction with their large cars?
It seems to me that increasingly these cars are aimed at boring old farts. Their most significant developments of late have been the Diesel Territory Slug, the EcoLpi, and the EB. The XR6 is barely more than a trim level (essentially replacing the Futura and SR) The XR6T lives in constant fear of the axe, V8 is gone, and the XR8 no more. The Territory has lost all its turbo modes, including the F6X, and you can’t even get an I6 in AWD! FPV have trimmed back its models, etc, etc. Yes, the world has changed, the market has changed, and I'm not saying that any of the forgoing would necessarily have “saved” the Falcon, but it does make me wonder if they haven’t made a dreadful mistake?

There is obviously a large (increasing?) demographic out there who care nothing about style, performance, or handling. As long as their family slug has 57 airbags and 18 different button on the steering wheel, they’re happy. There are also those who having driven “reliable” (and boring as bat ****) Corollas all their boring lives now want something a little more comfortable for the replacement hips. Problem is NONE of these people are going to buy a Falcon Nomatter how boring you make it.
People wanting a safe reliable family slug for their missus and kids will buy her a Camry or some Hyundai. Those who want to be a little bit “stylish” will get a Mazda 6. I(If I was going that path, as a Ford diehard, I’d be tempted to get her an ecolpi, but would probably plump for the Mondeo TD.) Boring old farts (still reeling from the demise of the Avalon) will STILL buy ******* Camrys, secure in the knowledge that they COULD buy an Aurion if they wanted to be a hoodlum.

If you want a “bang for your buck” RWD saloon, or SUV, the Falcon and Terri are impossible to beat in their home market. And I still reckon there is a significant niche market out there for exports of those models.
Nobody overseas is going to want to buy an EB Falcon, nor be fooled that a Territory Titanium is a prestige vehicle. But stick the 300kw+ I6T in an AWD, and you have something that PERFORMANCE wise would be punching way above its price-range.

I'm not suggesting that FA make EVERY Falcon a performance model, only that focussing on, and highlighting those aspects of the range, along with less boring styling, might reposition the Falcon brand in the market place.

It’s basic marketing 101. To carve out a market share you either need to offer an (attractive) point of difference, or you need to be able to improve upon what the market is currently consuming. The Falcon will never compete with Camrys & Hyundais etc when it comes to price, economy, and “reliability.” Hence the need to have points(s) of difference.

Every Falcon IS a performance model.

Did you not see the Top Gear test where a FG XT raced a XY GTHO Phase 3 and thrashed it?

A bog standard FG2 XT is quicker than 75% or the vehicles available in Australia, the current XR6T/G6ET is quicker than 95% of the vehicles in the market including EVERYTHING with a Holden badge (and every V8 Ford ever made before the SC V8) and then we come to FPV which are only challenged by supercars that make up less than 1% or 2% or the Australian market, start at double their price and go up from there.

I have an idea. Instead of everyone complaining constantly, how about just going down to your friendly Ford dealer and buying a new Falcon.

[turbodewd]

What a load of garbage assumptions in this thread.

The Falcon outsells so many similar cars, has anyone checked their VFACTS?!

If you combine the large and medium segments the Falcon comes third behind the Commodore and Camry. Third!

http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...62#comment1362

Click the link, check the stats.

************************************

Now what certainly is true is that the Aussie market is massively segmented. We have so many more brands and models than 10-15 yrs ago. Also, we have a super high Aussie dollar AND very low tariffs. Lowest in the world more or less.

In light of all this the Falcons is doing fine. Considering the amount of SUVs u can buy, the typical family has soooo many options.

[EB#]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

What a load of garbage assumptions in this thread.
The Falcon outsells so many similar cars, has anyone checked their VFACTS?!
If you combine the large and medium segments the Falcon comes third behind the Commodore and Camry. Third!

Wake up! The Falcon sales numbers do not justify the further development and
local manufacture of a single car design on its own platform, in a single market.
That's why Ford are tanking the Falcon.... The Camry, by comparison, sells
all over the world.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by flappist

I have an idea. Instead of everyone complaining constantly, how about just going down to your friendly Ford dealer and buying a new Falcon.

This is, without doubt the BEST quote I have ever read on the Forums. There are too many people that sit there and comment about how unjust the sales of Falcon is etc. Well if you're that passionate about the vehicle, get some brass out of your accounts or hit your bank man up for a loan (interest rates are at its lowest atm) and go buy a new one! Not a used AU or BA, go and buy a New one! And if enough people did, then you may be able to upgrade to the next falcon in a few years time.

[Gadgetman]

this thread is clear proof that every one perceives the Brand "Ford" as the Falcon motor company. Which is why the Brand Ford in aust has taken such a beating in recent times. This Thread is Titled "Has Ford Simply got it wrong" Not Ford got the Falcon wrong. Every reply since has been Falcon related. We need to acknowledge that Ford have other brand pillars that have done exceptionally well in recent years.

[turbodewd]

Originally Posted by EB92

Wake up! The Falcon sales numbers do not justify the further development and
local manufacture of a single car design on its own platform, in a single market.
That's why Ford are tanking the Falcon.... The Camry, by comparison, sells
all over the world.

I agree that is quite likely. Certainly if the Falcon doesnt drum up the numbers then it will attract no more investment and be retired.

Im no guru on how crucial the AU auto industry is to our economy, but if mining goes south or sideways and we dont make cars...are we in for a world of hurt?

[2011G6E]

I think you made a slight omission there...
"The average family wants a safe reliable slug with 57 airbags". You should have added "to drive on real world roads where 0-100 and quarter miles times are less than meaningless, where servicing costs for even small cars are going through the roof, and there's a speed camera on every overpass and behind every bush".

I've always laughed at the way people knock some new car when it can't do a sub-14 second quarter or can't do 0-100 in less than six seconds. To be blunt, who gives a damn about those figures? They're meaningless when you are talking a family car.

What the vast majority of people want is a car to suit their needs. And these days it means something safe, something economical, something cheap to run, and something that won't break the bank at service time.

There's a lot of misconceptions about what the Camry/Aurion is, and where it stands. It's a safe, comfortable, adequately powerful (actually the Aurion has 200kw, so it's more than adequate) car that usually comes with cheapish fixed price servicing and sometimes amazing deals on finance...of course it's going to be popular. I've driven quite a few k's in our sons Aurion, and it goes well, handles OK, and as a family car is hard to beat. It's not exactly exciting, but there's nothing actually wrong with it as a family car.


I find it sad that the thing that some people don't "like" about the Falcon is that it's seen by some of the public as "just a family car"...they seem to think families should want "exciting" cars instead of "sensible" cars...once upon a time in an era of overly-strong protection for the Australian industry, people "naturally" chose a Kingswood or a Falcon, and only oddballs chose Japanese stuff (like my old man with Mazdas all through the 70's). Nowadays, Falcon and Commodore perhaps try a little too hard to be seen as producers of "exciting" cars and hammer the image of bellowing V8's and outrageous body-kitted sports models.
Perhaps they should try a little harder to be seen as an ordinary family car...a viable choice over a Camry or Mazda or whatever.

[EB#]

Originally Posted by flappist

I have an idea. Instead of everyone complaining constantly, how about just going down to your friendly Ford dealer and buying a new Falcon.

Lets assume there are a regular 1000 Ford Forum contributors (and that's a
very generous figure) that each buy a new Falcon, one each, even each year
for the next three years. I don't think that will alter the big picture for the
Falcon in the slightest.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

I agree that is quite likely. Certainly if the Falcon doesnt drum up the numbers then it will attract no more investment and be retired.

Im no guru on how crucial the AU auto industry is to our economy, but if mining goes south or sideways and we dont make cars...are we in for a world of hurt?

Urrr Yes. Where aust is geographically located in relation to cheap labour countries in asia and our high labour rate employment suggests to me that Australian manufacturing is and has been facing its greatest challenge ever. I suppose we can always flog uranium if mining goes pear shaped.

[EB#]

I think it's handy to have a realistic look at the future of our Australian built
Fords in reference to global sales of "global platform" cars....

https://www.fordforums.com.au/photos/data/2937/worldsales.jpg[/IMG]
Refer:
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...320-2gfim.html

Local sales in 2012 of the Falcon at 14,000 and the Terry at 14,600 cannot
really be justified as an on-going development cost given that these cars
have such a small and singular market. This is aside from any other deals
that the government makes to prop the industry and the jobs. Ford will
place their money on the global platforms as the sales numbers around
the world are staggering compared to our tiny market.

Look at how Ford performs globally, with three spots in the top ten! I figure
this is the marketplace and models that they would like to capitalise on.
Ford is in the business of making cars and money!

When the Falcon is gone, I will certainly consider a Focus, or maybe even
the ST Fiesta for something a bit different... Maybe one of them will be
locally manufactured.. maybe not, I doubt it. Embrace the future I say !!

[mike_nofx]

Ford hasn't got it wrong... buyers have.

They think Ford, specifically Falcon, they think of: Poor fuel economy, sluggish, too big, too ugly, dinosaur engines, poor build quality, unsafe, poor handling etc etc. And they're wrong.

[2011G6E]

I don't know how long it is since you've wandered into a Toyota dealership (or if you ever have ) but have a look sometime at the new Corolla.

I don't know what they've been putting in the water at Toyota, specifically where the designers work, but bloody hell it's a fantastic looking little car...I think some of the "let's make cars fun" philosophy from the bosses directive for the 86 has started to flow downwards to the rest of the range...

[PG2]

Originally Posted by flappist

I have an idea. Instead of everyone complaining constantly, how about just going down to your friendly Ford dealer and buying a new Falcon.

Easier said than done.

The market still need used car buyers to help keep resale values (keep in mind this is one of the misconceptions of buying a Falcon). No used car buyers, no resale values.

It's a fact that paying off a house and utilities costs are at an all time high and have been for quite a few years. People just simply do not have the money to 'just go down to your friendly Ford Dealer and buy a new Falcon.' Keep in mind, people have always bought used cars. Do we actually know if buyers of today are buying used cars instead of new cars? Or is it just that people of today are buying more new cars than ever but just are not buying a Ford product?

[PG2]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Ford hasn't got it wrong... buyers have.

They think Ford, specifically Falcon, they think of: Poor fuel economy, sluggish, too big, too ugly, dinosaur engines, poor build quality, unsafe, poor handling etc etc. And they're wrong.

I agree in principle with what you have said.

However, buyers need to be educated. Who needs to educate them about these misconceptions? Ford does.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by PG2

Easier said than done.

The market still need used car buyers to help keep resale values (keep in mind this is one of the misconceptions of buying a Falcon). No used car buyers, no resale values.

It's a fact that paying off a house and utilities costs are at an all time high and have been for quite a few years. People just simply do not have the money to 'just go down to your friendly Ford Dealer and buy a new Falcon.' Keep in mind, people have always bought used cars. Do we actually know if buyers of today are buying used cars instead of new cars? Or is it just that people of today are buying more new cars than ever but just are not buying a Ford product?

The general public is far better informed about depreciation than they once were.
People know that instead of shelling out big bucks for a brand new car, they should hunt around for one that's a year or two old with a good service history...something that's current enough to be the current model shape and spec, but on which the first owner has taken the whack of depreciation.

When we were hunting for a four wheel drive early this year to trade the G6E on, we looked at new ones, but were staggered by some of the prices. So we started looking second hand, and eventually found a mid-2011 Triton GLX-R dual cab with canopy, tray liner, tow bar, bullbar, and in a nice metallic dark grey. Amazingly it only had 18,000km on the clock too. It was priced at $36,990...the original owner had paid about $52,000 for it a year and half earlier. We got the balance of the five year warrantee, so in effect, we have a "new" car.
Plenty of other four wheel drives were the same...a year or maybe two old, and up to half the price a new one would cost.

Seeing as how we were only offered a maximum of $19,000 for our well-equipped G6E that had leather guts and sat nav and premium stereo, and we paid $50,000 for it two years earlier, you can see how the sums work out.

Why buy brand new? Let the first sucker take the depreciation...and it's not like new cars these days are in any way "worn out" after only a year or two use. Check the log book, make sure you get the balance of the warrantee, and away you go.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by PG2

I agree in principle with what you have said.

However, buyers need to be educated. Who needs to educate them about these misconceptions? Ford does.

Yeah, and how do you suppose they do that? No company can or will tell their customers what they need to buy. Are you serious???

[PG2]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Yeah, and how do you suppose they do that? No company can or will tell their customers what they need to buy. Are you serious???

Yes I am.

It's not a matter of 'telling' someone what to buy. It's a matter of marketing the vehicle to 'educate' people so that they can make an informed decision in regards to buying a vehicle.

How about something like an ad that states "Come and have a look at the new Ecoboost Falcon - it is as economical as any 4cyl on the market."