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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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21-04-2015, 01:21 PM | #1 | |||
Render unto Caesar
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Quote:
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21-04-2015, 02:35 PM | #2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Victoria
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looks like they are more concerned about 3rd Party mechanics.
This could kill off an industry and force Motorists to go to dealerships for all service work and repairs, even after Warranty's have expired. not surprised John Deere is involved
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21-04-2015, 02:45 PM | #3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Melb north
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Sounds like a good reason to recycle your old car, if you pay your $ xxx000 dollars you should be able to tweak your own property.
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21-04-2015, 03:16 PM | #4 | ||
Shenanigans..............
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Footscrazy
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If I buy a Rembrandt painting and decide to use it as a candlewick, that's my choice.
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21-04-2015, 05:22 PM | #5 | ||
Thailand Specials
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This is going to be war on small business owners, so stand up and be counted.
There was something similar here recently where the courts sided against 3rd party workshops in favor of manufacturers too. |
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21-04-2015, 05:53 PM | #6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Oh dear this again...
Those of us "of a certain age" (OK, I turned fifty a few weeks back) will probably remember many times this sort of thing has been brought up over the decades. Usually it's car companies saying that cars older than X number of years should be off the road, usually five or ten at most. They quote Japan with it's very young fleet (usually only about three years old) as an example. Of course they don't do this to boost sales...it's purely out of concern for the safety of then driving public...yes, that's it...*cough*... Then motorcyclists have had to put up with suggestions that only "approved" parts can be used to repair the bikes...by which they meant only factory parts. Of course once the maker stops making the parts...well put two and two together... Then they had something for cars and bike called by various terms..."type approved" replacement parts was one, which was similar to the bike parts idea. They wouldn't actually force you to buy factory parts...other aftermarket parts might be available...however the maker of those parts would have had to go through an approval process by the manufacturer to say they "approved" of the parts. You don't have to be much of a cynic to realise very few bits and pieces would be "approved"... It would have killed off the entire second hand industry and auto parts stores around the country overnight. Once again, you had to use manufacturer approved parts to fix or service your car...and if they were no longer available...? Too bad. Of course they're not making you buy only factory parts...if you can find parts somewhere else, then go ahead...oh that's right...the only parts you'll be able to buy will be factory approved original stuff...whoops. They come up with these sort of brilliant ideas every five to ten years or so, I think just to judge opposition to the concept and see what happens... |
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21-04-2015, 05:54 PM | #7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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There is always two sides to the story . Manufacturers design ,manufacture and supply a complex product - it is fair to say that no one knows it better than they do. When some claim that they can "improve performance " by various modifications they are mostly doing it in limited area of performance rather than manufacturers the whole picture approach.
While increasing some aspects of performance is possible there is always some reduction in performance in a different area. Manufacturers set their limits and parameters for a car as a unit and with reliability and safety in mind. I don't think car makers care about anyone tinkering with their cars as long as they don't have to cover the damage in warranty costs. |
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22-04-2015, 07:26 AM | #8 | ||
BANNED
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
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A mate of mine recently got a piece of software that convinces a BMW/Audi/merc that it is connected to the factory database computers....( he has a dump of all the data!)
The european car scene is starting to rebel with all this software lock up stuff they are trying to set us up with. |
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22-04-2015, 08:22 AM | #9 | ||
Donating Member
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Interesting developments. Not sure what the end game of car manufacturers is here, especially since they have little interest in the car after the warranty runs out and the dealerships are flat out servicing a 15yo car. Are they going to now supply parts and support cars for 20-30 years, doubt that.
More worrying is that they are building components that are proprietary ie coil packs, power steer components which will need to be reverse engineered to talk to a manufacturer's PCM.
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22-04-2015, 09:13 AM | #10 | ||
Wirlankarra yanama
Join Date: May 2006
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Just what the world needs - more vexatious copyright litigation (sarc)
If they get the go ahead, I predict there will be a growth in 3rd party ECU manufacturers who will make zillions of dollars selling complete replacement plug compatible ECU's to allow the owner to do what they like. |
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22-04-2015, 10:05 AM | #11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Well we are going to need more dealerships because the ones we currently have are ****
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22-04-2015, 10:49 AM | #12 | ||
Youth worker
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OK, let's say that the automotive makers succeeded (which I highly doubt), then to avoid a massive infrastructure melt down (how many people would suddenly not be able to get to and from work due to no transportation including public transportation because they are out dated?), do courts order manufacturers to build all possible OEM parts at the original prices? This is only fair as the auto makers have already recouped their costs from model to model (so they say).
That way they could live up to their claim that they are not pushing in this direction for purely profit reasons. That then should also include original servicing costs, and original purchase service standards (we wish!). Does that also mean that for every vehicle that was ever produced the car makers have a responsibility to provide upgrade parts to match current day requirements at the same price as the original parts they replace for safety reasons of cause. It is the auto manufacturers main concern is it not? Only a bribed judge would be so stupid as to see this as anything other than a money grabbing attempt. Also if this was to be passed then how many other manufacturer's of other every day tools/computer equipment/software etc would jump on board?! No sorry Mr Smith you can not buy a logitech mouse for your Apple laptop. You must only buy an Apple approved mouse. Or sorry Mrs Smith, you can not buy that brand of dish washing tablets for your dish washer as it is not authorised to be used by your manufacturer. Here, this is the only brand you can use that will not effect the original use and safety of the dish washer! I am going over the top with my examples but, isn't that the same level of argument the auto makers are using?
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22-04-2015, 12:36 PM | #13 | ||
bitch lasagne
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This is concerning on multiple levels. The implication of such a move is that it would effectively mean that no one actually owns their car. The $xx,xxx they hand over is essentially a licence fee to use the car until it craps out (or is mandated by govco).
It would also decimate the aftermarket parts industry as manufacturers would be exceptionally reticent to enable the industry (by way of licencing) to keep making parts and become competition. |
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22-04-2015, 12:38 PM | #14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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trying to stop people saving a few bucks?
Quote:
They'll probably also try to outlaw people 'destroying' their car on purpose, like that Jeep owner. this is definitely rant worthy
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22-04-2015, 12:45 PM | #15 | ||
Former BTIKD
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Lets not forget that this in an American article.
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22-04-2015, 12:49 PM | #16 | |||
bitch lasagne
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It is, but with signing and/or ratification of the TPP imminent, it will be an issue here too.
Quote:
Last edited by Trump; 22-04-2015 at 01:00 PM. |
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22-04-2015, 01:03 PM | #17 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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I think everyone here is missing the point... this looks at isues relating to modifying ECUs.
AS electronics are now responsible for accellerating, steering and braking (esp, cruise, electric steering) somone dude messing with the ECU and getting it wrong can be dangerous. |
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22-04-2015, 01:13 PM | #18 | |||
Donating Member
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Quote:
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I love Holdens.... |
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22-04-2015, 01:36 PM | #19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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22-04-2015, 03:39 PM | #20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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some might contest that statement when they have to go 5 times to the the dealership to fix a gearbox problem or to find and fix an electrical gremlin or a suspension issue . |
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22-04-2015, 04:28 PM | #21 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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I doubt this will amount to anything this time but as mentioned above with legislation like the TPP looming if there is the will by the auto manufacturing and or any industry there is the way. However how dare we stand in the way of a company making money, you wouldn't accept anyone standing in your way to make a living? You want to buy something you may have to do so under the manufacturers rules, signing away rights is not a new concept. those rights in this case may be choice of repairer and parts supplier. I really believe the complexity of body panels, lights and other commonly damaged adornments on cars are designed such that its not economically viable for the aftermarket to replicate hence ensuring only one supplier. Genius stuff really. JP |
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22-04-2015, 05:55 PM | #22 | |||
Thailand Specials
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Does it work with other manufacturers or just the big 3 Euros at the moment? |
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22-04-2015, 05:59 PM | #23 | |||
bitch lasagne
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Quote:
And they will get it with the TPP. |
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22-04-2015, 06:01 PM | #24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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I even went into Toyota and found that I could actually pay less for the driveshaft center bearing assembly and a couple of other small bits for our 1982 Celica than I would through aftermarket suppliers. This even seemed to surprise the spare parts guy that they still had the parts list on their computers. Not implying all makers will do this..."planned obsolescence" is a term from 1970's USA that we should do our best to leave in the past... |
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22-04-2015, 06:10 PM | #25 | |||||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
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Location: Bibra Lake WA
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As I indicated in the FG workshop manual thread this approach and recent decisions has what has stymied access to factory workshop manuals for the general public http://www.aaaa.com.au/files/issues/...n%20151214.pdf
and the related press release http://www.aaaa.com.au/news.asp?id=196 Quote:
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Noting in Canada and Europe: Quote:
Unfortunately it seems the cosy arrangement in Australia between the AAAA and the vehicle manufacturers was blessed by our motoring organisations representing consumers and we and publishers like Haynes and Max Ellery were left out in the cold so it is going to get even more difficult to get access to workshop manuals. Time to get the Australian Motorist Party on to it perhaps. __________________ regards Blue
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regards Blue |
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22-04-2015, 07:43 PM | #26 | ||
Regular Member
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y'all wake up that the banking families are our global government. they own all federal reserves, they own most corporations. the entire money system is a scam
we don't actually own ****. good luck |
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22-04-2015, 09:20 PM | #27 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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23-04-2015, 03:38 PM | #28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Ahhh its great to own and drive classics. I own them lock stock and barrel and no corporation has any rights to any aspect of them and I can repair and or modify them to my hearts content.
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23-04-2015, 04:27 PM | #29 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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But the way I read the article, is that they were looking for total control. and where does it stop? for example Panel Beaters need to re-fit airbags and other safety features. cars will get written off all to easily
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23-04-2015, 04:52 PM | #30 | ||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
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Location: Bibra Lake WA
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Maybe we should start documenting the evidence when the dealers servicing our cars get it wrong and we have to fix them ourselves so we can document that often the enthusiasts know his car better than those the maker authorises to fix them. Yes; it happens. And if they win the argument next will be the sales driven "your car is unfixable; you need to buy a new one".
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regards Blue |
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