Kill Speed Kills

[Madaya]

Article on ABC Website. A good read...

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...d-toll/6831300

It all comes down to driving to the conditions. Here most drivers think of the Weather as being conditions, but firstly, conditions is firstly the driver - is the driver competent (sober, alert, aware). The car, roadworthy? (tyres, brakes etc). The road, good vision, well maintained.

If all us drivers could give a nod to all of the above, the government could save a bucket of money by getting rid of speed zone signs.

Unfortunately, and this is one of my bugbears from the ABC post, I still have to pull up and stop behind a fellow driver, at a vacant roundabout. Someone, who is obviously incompetent and should not be behind a steering wheel.

All could be forgiven if the driver might be in their 80 plus years. Out of respect, I give these geezers a bit of room and they are driving as well as their reactions allow them. But I find that the worst offenders are folk in my own bracket (50's).

Cheers mates.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Madaya

All could be forgiven if the driver might be in their 80 plus years. Out of respect, I give these geezers a bit of room and they are driving as well as their reactions allow them. But I find that the worst offenders are folk in my own bracket (50's).

Why should age matter. If the person is incompetent then they should take the bus. We need to stop pandering to the lowest common denominator.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by Madaya

If all us drivers could give a nod to all of the above, the government could save a bucket of money by getting rid of speed zone signs.

This adds yet another condition to the equation. Two actually.

Skill difference between drivers, &

Differences in speed.

Everyone has differing levels of skill, and as a result different abilities of judgement leading directly to differing speeds and increase likely hood of crashes.

An increase of speed limits and a "HS" class (High Speed) that allows you to travel at the maximum speed limit of say 130. This would be competency based and would have to show a plate allowing you drive at that spee similar to P and L plates. Don't have them on? Can't drive 130.

Some regulation is required but a colpoete abolishment would cause disaster.

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by Revolver

This adds yet another condition to the equation. Two actually.



Skill difference between drivers, &



Differences in speed.



Everyone has differing levels of skill, and as a result different abilities of judgement leading directly to differing speeds and increase likely hood of crashes.



An increase of speed limits and a "HS" class (High Speed) that allows you to travel at the maximum speed limit of say 130. This would be competency based and would have to show a plate allowing you drive at that spee similar to P and L plates. Don't have them on? Can't drive 130.



Some regulation is required but a colpoete abolishment would cause disaster.

That's ridiculous, could you imagine how frustrating that would be getting stuck behind someone who's not allowed to do 130 when you are. Only to overtake them and get stuck behind another one 2 K's up the road. That would create driver impatience and cause more accidents.

[99AUXR]

Interesting as I go to quite a few road fatalities and 99% of the time speed isnt the cause for the crash. The two the have happened recently with one just 2 days ago were both due to driver inattention due to fatigue or being distracted. The one recently was a local who knew the roads when but 1 second of distraction, in the gravel and thats all it takes.

Interesting conversation with one of the police investigators he said allot of cars are traveling at 120-130 on these roads and never have crashes however all the crashes that occur and due to people being distracted, falling asleep or not reducing speed for certain conditions e.g surface water/strong winds.

And then went to say our area is one of the most enforced however has very high fatality rate which he said highlights the fact the policing is doing little if anything at all. His preference was to put rumble strips on the centre line and outside edges of road as this has proven to be effective in previously high crash rate areas.

The whole speed kills mantra is just hype to drive the revenue gathering machine imo.

P.s having different speeds is just silly and why the removed the 70km/h speed limit for learner motorcyclists here as previously they could be passed by a big truck doing 90km/h!

[damo76]

It's like traveling the Forest HWY from Bunbury to Perth, it's basically a straight with no trees either side of the lanes and the speed limit is 110kmh.. but the openness of the road it feels like your doing 60kmh, half the time your trying to keep your eyes open from boredom. That HWY could safely be a 130kmh speed limit, a lot of poeple do that on it anyway.

[tranquilized]

Speed still leads the field as a factor in 46 per cent of deaths, but alcohol and fatigue each contribute to 20 per cent, while non-use of seatbelts is counted in 14 per cent of crashes.

I remember reading a few years back about the way data is gathered to arrive at these statistics, and how "speed as a factor" doesn't necessarily mean the driver was travelling above the posted limit. They were deemed to have been travelling too fast for the conditions (obviously, or they wouldn't have crashed) but often at or below the speed limit. So these statistics that are relied upon so heavily to justify the speed obsession are total bs to start with.

[Madaya]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Why should age matter. If the person is incompetent then they should take the bus. We need to stop pandering to the lowest common denominator.

Bro, as drivers, we should be aware of all. When we reach the plus 70's, we will be sitting in intelligent Autocars.

What annoys me are drivers (I'm 52) who have no idea how to navigate a roundabout. We have a 3 roundabouts here in Bunbury which are clearly marked as 'slip roads', for cars in the left hand lane of a dual carriageway.

Bud, I can forgive an old fogey, but dudes on P's and up are a pain in the???

[Crazy Dazz]

The PROBLEM I have with speed limits, is that they are mostly arbitrary.
100 years ago, somebody plucked some numbers from their bum, and apart from metrication we have stuck with them.
Roads have improved, cars have improved, knowledge has improved, yet there appears to be no "science" behind speed limits, just an arbitrary sliding scale.

Another thing that beggars belief, is that whilst we have imposed lower speed limits around our schools, we STILL build schools on major thoroughfares. A few years back, the City of Wanneroo decided to create a new through road, by joining together a bunch of roads. And guess where they chose to route it, right past our School and the Kingsways sport grounds, because it was EASY to resume the land. So now they have a thoroughfare that parallels Wanneroo road, but without the dozens of traffic lights, and they act surprised that it has turned into a freeway.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by NTF6

That's ridiculous, could you imagine how frustrating that would be getting stuck behind someone who's not allowed to do 130 when you are. Only to overtake them and get stuck behind another one 2 K's up the road. That would create driver impatience and cause more accidents.

Thats what 2 lanes are for........

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Roads have improved, cars have improved, knowledge has improved

I'll agree with the first 2, but not the last. The vast majority of drivers (in Sydney at least) have VERY LITTLE knowledge of driving skills in general & road rules in particular.

Dr Terry

[Cav]

Wanna know the facts?

I (or we) are bloody good drivers. It's the other idiots on the road that are the problem.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The PROBLEM I have with speed limits, is that they are mostly arbitrary.

this!!!

in a sane and rational world, speed limits would be set using science and include sight lines, stopping distances, road conditions and weather conditions and we'd all believe they were correct and stick to them.

the reality is that most people believe that in most cases the limits are in appropriate and ignore them. The police and governments focus on them as something easy to enforce and a good revenue stream. as long as governments budget for speeding revenue then nothing is ever going to change

[noflac52]

The driverless car won't be introduced here for a long time, nor will driver education improve in the short term. This would kill off the cash cow that governments are so addicted to in OZ.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by simon varley

this!!!

in a sane and rational world, speed limits would be set using science and include sight lines, stopping distances, road conditions and weather conditions and we'd all believe they were correct and stick to them.

Road engineers apparently do use formulas to set speed limits. But I think the ones they use are still the same ones they used in the 50's when cars weren't as advanced as they are these days.

[MAD]

I remember Brocky was on a bit of a TV tour trying to push road safety and sensible speed limits not all that long before his passing (RIP).

If I remember correctly, he said something like the majority of fatalities occurred in 80km/h zones, and were not exceeding the speed limit.
(trying to find reference to back this up, hoping someone else might remember more)

[Express]

I grabbed these figures from the NSW Government - Transport For NSW website.

A more involved search would probably bring up figures for other states.


Fatalities by Behavioural Factors

Year........Speed........Fatigue........Alcohol... .....Non-Restraint

2008..........152............61..............78... ................46
2009..........207............78..............94... ................67
2010..........161............58..............74... ................31
2011..........152............72..............70... ................40
2012..........146............62..............56... ................31
2013..........140............62..............53... ................20

More figures going back to 2000 can be found at this link:

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov....alfactors.html





This explains how they define these type of crashes.


4. Speeding and fatigue involvement


Speeding

It is not always clear from police reports if speeding (excessive speed for the prevailing conditions) was a contributing factor in a road crash. We consider speeding to have been a contributing factor if at least one speeding motor vehicle was in a crash. We say a motor vehicle was speeding if it meets any of these conditions:

•The vehicle's driver or rider was charged with a speeding offence

•Police said the vehicle was travelling at excessive speed

•The speed of the vehicle was faster than that allowed for the licence class of the driver or rider, or the vehicle weight (introduced 1 January 2010)

•The speed of the vehicle was higher than the speed limit

•While on a curve the vehicle jack-knifed, skidded, slid or the controller lost control

•The vehicle ran off the road on a bend or turning a corner and the driver or rider was not distracted by something, or affected by drowsiness or sudden illness, and was not swerving to avoid another vehicle, animal or object, and the vehicle did not have equipment failure



Fatigue

It is not always clear from police reports if fatigue was a contributing factor in a road crash. We consider fatigue to have been a contributing factor if at least one fatigued motor vehicle controller was in a road crash. We define a motor vehicle controller to be fatigued if they meet any of these conditions:

•Police said the motor vehicle driver or rider was asleep, drowsy or tired

•The vehicle travelled onto the incorrect side of a straight road and had a head-on collision (and was not overtaking another vehicle and no other relevant factor was found)

•The vehicle ran off a straight road or off the road to the outside of a curve and the vehicle was not travelling at excessive speed and there was no other relevant factor found for the crash



Taken from this link:

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov....-data.html?=#4

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by NTF6

That's ridiculous, could you imagine how frustrating that would be getting stuck behind someone who's not allowed to do 130 when you are. Only to overtake them and get stuck behind another one 2 K's up the road. That would create driver impatience and cause more accidents.

As opposed to runs where your doing 100 and the others are doing 80 (more often then you think). Or you make the 130kph on duel lanes.

Originally Posted by Madaya

Bro, as drivers, we should be aware of all. When we reach the plus 70's, we will be sitting in intelligent Autocars.

I am aware of all. That's why I didn't plow up old bitties bum yesterday when she decided to leave the emergency lane (on the RHS) at about the same speed as she would in the suburbs. NFI....but I bet she hasn't been done for speeding in years.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by damo76

It's like traveling the Forest HWY from Bunbury to Perth, it's basically a straight with no trees either side of the lanes and the speed limit is 110kmh.. but the openness of the road it feels like your doing 60kmh, half the time your trying to keep your eyes open from boredom. That HWY could safely be a 130kmh speed limit, a lot of poeple do that on it anyway.

If only our speed limit signs read in MPH instead of KM/H. 110mph down the freeway, now we're talkin' School Zones and Roadworks at 40mph.

[Olbucko]

Originally Posted by NTF6

That's ridiculous, could you imagine how frustrating that would be getting stuck behind someone who's not allowed to do 130 when you are. Only to overtake them and get stuck behind another one 2 K's up the road. That would create driver impatience and cause more accidents.

A driver who can't cope with vehicles restricted to a lower speed, such as trucks, learners, or old people, would not be competent or mature enough to be allowed to drive at higher speeds.

[creative]

Speed doesn't kill... it's the sudden stop that does.

The only way to reduce accidents is education education education and it begins with compulsory certified driving lessons, not mum and dad passing on their own bad habits.

Recently had an argument with a lady that didn't even have an understanding of even the basic road rules and swore blind that she was right as it was the way she was taught.

[bazza91]

Zero road toll is impossible. The cost of achieving it is wildly impractical and economically not viable.
The amount of money required to even possibly make it happen would mean you had zero money to spend on other things like healthcare and government services such as welfare or emergency services.
I agree that zero road toll would be ideal. It would be great if nobody died on the roads, however its a high risk activity, and the risk is something that cant be eliminated.
We need to find a balance between amount of risk and amount of gain.

[Syndrome]

If speed kills why did this driver live to upload the following video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjrcXc6Qv-E

Speed itself does not kill. Inappropriate speed kills.

[Syndrome]

If speed kills why did this driver, who did 296km/hr on a public road, live to upload the following video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjrcXc6Qv-E

Speed itself does not kill. Inappropriate speed kills.

[tonys6550]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

If speed kills why did this driver, who did 296km/hr on a public road, live to upload the following video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjrcXc6Qv-E

Speed itself does not kill. Inappropriate speed kills.

Wow, that guy must be beaming from ear to ear with his ability to take a supercar to those speeds on a public road, good for him, and survived to tell the tale no less.

[Blue Roo]

The Australian Government both State and Federal, needs to build better well designed roads to get any where near the same type of roads they have in Europe.

For me. I'm all for the German Style Autobahn.
Here in Australia. We have enough space to build these type of road infrastructures (Highways). It all comes down to what the governments are prepared to pay for.

Also in Finland. The Government start teaching kids to drive and handle a car, as young as 14. This type of education and experience could help the young adults here to slow down the road toll.

[Cav]

Youse blokes is flogging a dead horse.

There is no way the state govmints will increase speed limits, for two reasons:

1) At the first fatality the media will be all over it blaming an increase in speed limits,

2) Govmints need the money from speeding fines. I think NSW gets 1/2 a $mil a day

[ford71V8]

Car bodies should block all phone signals. Its become a huge problem and seems to be getting worse.

GPS affected? Buy a Gregory's.

[tonys6550]

Originally Posted by ford71V8

Car bodies should block all phone signals. Its become a huge problem and seems to be getting worse.

GPS affected? Buy a Gregory's.

Ahh, the days of old, when you had your Gregory's on the steering wheel driving around trying to find where you where.

Same ****, different distraction.

[Qwerty321]

Speed does kill. Once you're in an accident the force exerted on you is proportional to the velocity squared. Take a 20 kph difference. A 1.5 Tonne car travelling at 50 kph exerts a force of 289 kN. The same car travelling at 70kph, 100kph and 120kph exerts a force of 567 kN, 1160 kN and 1670 kN respectively. So you see the same 20 kph difference in speed changes the force exerted by 278 kN at 50-70 and 510 kN at 100-120. So yes in short speed most definitely kills, the faster you go the messier it gets when comparing identical cars.

Now speed definitely determines whether you die once your in the crash, but getting into a crash is a completely different question. There are quite a lot of drivers who can safely cruise along at 120 because they're capable, the roads are good and their car is designed for it. On the other hand there are drivers and cars on this road that shouldn't even be going at 100. What we forget is that we expect all drivers to be like us, but we're not the ordinary. The fact we're on a forum such as this shows we're "enthusiasts" or at the very least we have awareness. People like us drive capable cars, maintain them at a safe standard and take pride in our driving. There are people out there on the highways driving old Nissan Micras on bald tires that don't give two ***** about their driving. I've had a friend of mine ask me if I still bother to check my blindspots as he stopped checking his after his drivers test because "there's never anything there". These are the people out there on the roads with us. I've followed cars that cut corners on blind corners, overtake on blind hills and drift in and out of their lane cause they're operating a radio. These are also the people that will speed because they grossly overestimate their driving due to ignorance. Be thankful the cops are keeping people like them from speeding.

So sure, speed won't necessarily cause you to crash (as long as you're sensible about it), but when you go around that corner and there's a driver like those I mentioned above headed straight for you, the crash is inevitable and the only thing that'll save you is the speed the both of you are doing.


P.S. Sorry for the long post/rant