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31-10-2020, 01:32 PM | #1 | |||
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It's AFF's favorite man, John Cadogan He has an interesting point here, that Toyota 4.5L V8 diesel is an absolute turd (in as delivered factory trim) with expensive maintenance. Its an ancient piece of crap, but the clip is interesting as its talks about the differences in losses between bigger engines with numbers. Interestingly he covers the TT variant of the same engine on the 200 series, its much better. He's done some calculations outlined below: Quote:
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31-10-2020, 02:33 PM | #2 | ||
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In My Mind were the V8 wins will be in Longevity.
There's plenty of (pre DPF) Troopies & Cab Chassis with in excess of 400,0000 Ks still working, Don't think you'll find Too Prado's with those sort of K's, But Happy to be Corrected. |
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31-10-2020, 02:44 PM | #3 | ||
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A lot of numbers there
haven't (won't) watch the video, but fuel consumption is a function of throttle position. throttle position is a function of your foot (and depends on a few things such as road type/incline, wind, rolling resistance, BSFC of the engine and gearing, drivetrain frictional losses etc etc) Engineers , accountants and marketers compromise decision making depending on final product (the above items they can do something about) depending on the intended market/use. Prado intended use is very different market to the ute Just ask Al Queda what they're prefer to strap a 50 cal AA gun to when they need to travel across the dunes at 40km/hr... |
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31-10-2020, 03:08 PM | #4 | ||
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The Toyota V8 diesel was underwhelming in 2007 when it came out. For comparison, the 2007 Jeep/Mercedes 3.0 CRD pumped out 160/510. I wouldn’t expect Toyota to put out 50% more power and torque than that to match the specific output per litre, but I certainly wouldn’t expect it to be less!
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31-10-2020, 06:10 PM | #5 | |||
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Quote:
More on that the reason these groups use Toyota's is because they're comparatively cheap to operate and maintain, easy to get your hands on and are much more fuel efficient compared to APCs/Tanks, their use for military purposes first occurred in North Africa with Chad militias fighting against Libya, Chad was gifted 400x Toyota Land Cruiser and Hilux utes by France who also backed up with them providing air support. If these groups had the resources for military equipment they wouldn't be using Land Cruisers regardless of their reputation of being reliable |
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31-10-2020, 07:36 PM | #6 | ||
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The 70 series landcruisers don't use the V8s overseas, we're the only ones to get it.
Either they have a 4L V6 or the old 4.2L TD I6. These are the only road vehicle that I know of which has 4" more front track than the rear. For a so called offroad vehicle that is such a terrible engineering decision. There was rumors that 2021 model was supposed to have a wider rear axle and a 6 speed manual. Not sure what ever happened to that.
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. Last edited by XR Martin; 31-10-2020 at 07:42 PM. |
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31-10-2020, 07:41 PM | #7 | |||
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Personally I'm not a fan of that engine, injector problems and they're expensive, it was the same as the KUN26R Hilux with its 3L engine, injector problems as well (are they the same injector?) but at least there is only 4 of them in the case of the Hilux. The front/rear track discrepancy is ridiculous but its obvious that engine bay wasn't designed for a V engine, the car was designed like 30 years ago. Even only offering a 5sp manual is a bit antiquated, its not a $18,000 car its a $70K price point, it should have 6 gears. Further on from this it seems the twin turbo variant of the same engine is a much better proposition but its not offered in the 70 series, what is the factory turbo on the single turbo variants? Is it a fixed geometry turbo or using variable vane/nozzle? If its giving peak torque at 1200 RPM it would have to be on the small side which is maybe why it has such a small peak power figure, and the torque is crap too for the capacity. Maybe that single turbo is undersized from factory? Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 31-10-2020 at 07:52 PM. |
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31-10-2020, 07:49 PM | #8 | |||
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31-10-2020, 08:22 PM | #9 | |||
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https://thediplomat.com/2015/10/japa...ker-of-choice/ it was tongue in cheek, intended to show the difference in markets/use that drive engineers to choose a certain gearing set, driveline and wheel set (frictional losses and rolling resistance) If i remember correctly the v8 tt wouldn't kick into top gear with Aus's lower highway speeds, many people went back saying they had a problem - the auto wouldn't kick into 6th until over 120. Useless for everyone except SA/WA/NT. Toyota solution was to reprogram for 6th at 100-120, likely costing fuel efficiency, due greater throttle positions required, as 6th was suitable for higher (then aus) cruising speeds seen in many other countries like the Middle east. A greater overdriven gear doesn't always equate to better fuel efficency at a certain speed. Particularly with large square objects being pushed through the air above 90 km/h Track delta f-r and starter motor designs were unusual NFG design cues from Toyota Last edited by 383hq; 31-10-2020 at 08:36 PM. |
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31-10-2020, 08:22 PM | #10 | ||
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31-10-2020, 09:00 PM | #11 | |||
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The starter motor design being in the vee isn't unusual for Toyota - the 1UZFE has the same weirdness going on there, the thing is though Denso starter motors are really reliable, at best they eventually flog out the contacts in the solenoid, I've literally never seen a Denso starter motor fail on any other part. |
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31-10-2020, 11:17 PM | #12 | ||
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I don't doubt the starter motors are reliable, however as soon as that valley fills with water after a decent river crossing kiss that starter goodbye.
Although being manual only, you can usually get it going regardless. The Mercedes G-wagon is much better designed. (the proper off road one, not the poser one) Although they're problem is the suspension is too stiff and it has bugger all articulation.
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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01-11-2020, 10:06 AM | #13 | ||
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It takes until 2020 for this flog to tell us what most people knew 12 years ago.
For balance is Cadogan going to do a similar video hating on Hyundai for having archaic petrol engines in their line up whose figures are no better than what the Euros were putting out in the 1990’s... Or will that result in a pay cut. BTW 15l is a bit mis leading. My old work one on 33” tyres was over 3 tonne gross and would return 16.5l/100km Highway or town or combined. A work mate bought a single cab new with steel tray and said it gets 11l/100km. I’m sure if you loaded a wheezing four cylinder diesel to over 3t and put larger tyres on it they wouldn’t be significantly better on fuel. |
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01-11-2020, 10:34 AM | #14 | ||
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I'm surprised that Mr. Cardogan didn't compare the TDV8's power and torque
with Rangers near identical 157 Is/500 mm ,........or was that too painful to admit? |
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01-11-2020, 10:43 AM | #15 | |||
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Quote:
1992 VW Golf GTi had 77kw and 155nm 2020 Hyundai i30 has 120kw and 203nm. You’re right, no progress at all.
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01-11-2020, 11:06 AM | #16 | |||
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Hyundai Kona 110kw/180nm E46 BMW 318i 110kw/190nm Mercedes e200 c200 100kw/190nm Citroen Xantia Peugeot 406 105kw/182nm. Volvo B4 2.0 103kw/183nm. Not a fan of on paper stats. But since Cadogan dedicated 30minutes of drivel to it why not. |
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01-11-2020, 11:17 AM | #17 | |||
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But if we want to make this completely fair. You have your mk3 Golf GTi. As a hot hatch comparison, i30N at 200kw+ in 2020. If you want to pick on Hyundai some more. Check out competitors such as mazda3, corolla for their power figures. They are all on par with each other in reality.
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01-11-2020, 12:40 PM | #18 | |||
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Quote:
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01-11-2020, 03:56 PM | #19 | ||
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I'd prefer Audi's 4.2 V8 diesel making250kw/800nm or their V12 making 368kw/1000nm over Toyota's 4.5 V8.
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01-11-2020, 06:46 PM | #20 | ||
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01-11-2020, 08:21 PM | #21 | ||
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I'll take a Ford 6.7L diesel thanks.
354kw/1424nm.
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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01-11-2020, 08:28 PM | #22 | ||
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01-11-2020, 08:42 PM | #23 | ||
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Detroit 6v71 just for the sound it makes bloody beautiful.
As a fleet manager back in the 90, s I bought a second hand truck a Bedford actually with a 6v71 and a road ranger. I can still the sound of that truck pulling into the yard for the first time. |
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01-11-2020, 10:07 PM | #25 | |||
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What about this one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gbOABnnODyo
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. Last edited by XR Martin; 01-11-2020 at 10:12 PM. |
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01-11-2020, 10:10 PM | #26 | ||
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It’s simply this
It’s 8 cylinders. And it’s derated as they used the 6cyl gearbox and couldn’t get the twins in the bay. The turbo 6 was much better to drive, on paper the 8 has more torque down low but it is much easier to stall and felt doughy down low. |
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02-11-2020, 12:16 AM | #27 | ||
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these fellas have a 79 series , drag landcruiser. it runs the v8 diesel . i can,t quote numbers. it wheel stands and probably should have wheelie bars, i think there shooting for below 9,s at the drags. frankenmule is the truck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peK6rgv_BWk |
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02-11-2020, 02:11 AM | #28 | ||
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I have a friend who had an old GMC bus converted to a motorhome with an 8V71. I got to drive it one time. Crazy amount of torque for its time!
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02-11-2020, 12:14 PM | #29 | ||
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ones a truck, ones a family station wagon.
what's he going to compare next? why are truck engine are not as efficient as SUV's
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02-11-2020, 01:25 PM | #30 | |||
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If that's the way you want to play it then compare the 4.5L V8 to the Ranger, DMax and other LCVs in that segment. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 02-11-2020 at 01:30 PM. |
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